Building the Ballot – The Markets
Welcome to the first working post of the FUSSYlittleBALLOT 3.0. Hopefully you read a couple days ago about the plan to build a better ballot for 2012.
When April rolls around, I’m going to ask for your help. If you and I and everyone we know vote for a common set of exceptional local businesses, we can propel some of the best places in the area onto the Times Union’s Best of the Capital Region list.
But I’ve found in the past, it’s been challenging to get people to vote for a slate of businesses that they themselves have had no input in creating. Well that’s what we are doing today. And really, the comments section of this post will be active until the time I actually cobble together the FLB 3.0 at the end of March.
So….grocery stores and farmers markets. What makes them good? And which ones are just a little bit better, rising to the top and qualifying as one of The Best. I’ll spell out my criteria and give you my top three picks for each category. You can feel free to agree or disagree, and leave as detailed a comment as you like. All I ask is that if you play along at home, you submit not just your top pick, but the three best options (in rank order).
Best local grocery store
Based on the past winners of this category it’s really not just grocery stores, but supermarkets. A grocery store is someplace you buy groceries. A supermarket has those plus a whole lot more.
In theory a supermarket is a place where you can get everything on your weekly shopping list. Therefore some solid places like Putnam Market, The Fresh Market, Adventures in Food Trading or even Honest Weight Food Co-op don’t qualify. For this category, I’m looking at various locations of Hannaford, Price Chopper and Shop Rite. Walmart was considered too, but deficiencies in their meat and deli departments kept them off the top three.
Please note that Best doesn’t equate with favorite either. Walmart is my favorite place locally to go for groceries, especially since I don’t use the deli and buy my meat mostly from Adventure in Food Trading. But I can step back far enough to identify it is not the best grocery store in the Capital Region.
So what makes a grocer great? Price comparisons aren’t terribly interesting. Everyone shops a different basket of goods. And the savvy shopper will stock up during a sale, and avoid paying full price. The things that I find most compelling are a broad selection of high quality products, friendly and helpful employees, cleanliness of the store, and its bonus features.
Choosing just three is tricky. But here they are in reverse order.
3) The Slingerlands Price Chopper
They have Local Ocean’s sustainably farmed seafood from the Hudson Valley in their sizeable seafood counter. It’s also home to Ben & Bill’s Deli, which makes a passable pastrami sandwich that is totally better than Gershon’s. A Starbucks in the store allows me to get my coffee on while I shop. Plus they have a dedicated Natural Foods section.
2) The Niskayuna Shop Rite
The mobs have died down, and that means you can get in there and pick from a wide selection of cheeses and ice cream that aren’t available in any other supermarket. They have a full line of Applegate Farms products in their refrigerators and a couple aisles filled with natural foods. Plus I love the bins of dried salt cod in front of the fish counter.
1) The Latham Hannaford
Recently I called to ask about a Nature’s Place roast chicken. After a brief stop at the switchboard, I had the chicken guy on the phone in a matter of seconds. It was amazing. Those chickens are pretty damn special too. As are the Nature’s Place antibiotic free Italian pork sausages. Their natural food section is like a store within a store. And while it may not have anything to do with the store itself, it’s effectively next door to All Star Wine, which is as close as we’re going to get to wine in a grocery store for a while.
Best farmers market
Out here I think a farmers market should be judged on what it brings at the height of winter. Anyone can have a good market in the height of summer. But winter separates the pack and clearly shows who is the best of the best.
3) Delmar Farmers Market
It’s closed in the winter, but they are the home to the best cheesemonger in the Capital Region, and that’s worth something. Plus they have been making noises about staying open in the winter for the next season. I’ll believe it when I see it.
2) Schenectady Greenmarket
They have a great winter space in the Proctors lobby and basement. Hudson-Chatham wine is there in addition to a few other vendors that are exclusive to this Sunday location. But in February its actual produce lags behind the region’s strongest market.
1) Troy Waterfront Farmers Market
Not only is there more produce in February, but with the inclusion of Mrs. London’s and Pura Vida Fisheries this stands clearly on top of the heap. The Atrium isn’t as cozy as Proctors, but it is close to both amazing donuts and Famous Lunch, which are all open on Sundays as well.
I had hoped to cover the ethnic markets today too. But those will have to wait. This took a bit more words than I had imagined, and I want to make sure I don’t inhibit responses by asking for you to submit too much information at one time.
So let’s hear it. Submit your top three for each category in the comments below. Or if you agree with the above selections, let me know that too. Thanks.
FUSSYlittleBLOG 
I’m not sure if how a farmer market does in winter conditions should necessarily be the deciding factor or large factor in superiority. But I haven’t been to the Delmar farmer’s market even though I’m on their mailing list. No idea they had the best cheese monger around…exactly why these categories need to be in place…either that…or I need to start reading all of my semi-spam mail…
Love that the Saturday Delmar FM is on your list! This past season was only the market’s third year in existence and we’ve grown to 60 vendors already. I saw the market manager yesterday and he said more vendors are clamoring to get in for this year. There’s only so much of the parking lot we can take over however (based on agreement w/ the school – but we expanded last year so maybe a new agreement could be made if we continue to grow).
What’s really special about the DM is that it’s a “producer only” market, which means the person who grew or made what you’re buying has to be materially involved in production of the goods (and must be present at the market to sell). We also strongly encourage patrons of the market to bring their own mugs and bags (or baskets). The Board has ensured all vendors use sustanable packaging and production methods (in fact, they have rigorous standards to this effect). The extremely supportive community of people who come to this market are the type to make a point to come out when it’s raining buckets, because they know we’ll be there. All of the vendors are super friendly. We hope to be a part of this market for a long long time. Can’t say enough good things about it!
I’ve not been to the Delmar Farmers Market, but I’m not sure how it can call itself a producer-only market if The Cheese Traveler can sell there. He does not make his own cheese. Schenectady Greenmarket (which is producer-only) would not accept him.
Note: I am on the board of Schenectady Greenmarket, and have had personal conversations with Eric Paul, The Cheese Traveler about coming to SGM. I have no stake in his business. I’m also not trying to tear down the Delmar Market, just making a point. I’m sure it’s terrific.
What about the Saratoga Farmers Market? Too far?
The Slingerlands PC was my go to grocery store. Now that I work across the river, I’m partial to the PC on 9 and 20 in East Greenbush. They’ve redone the store and it’s just seems so much more open than the Slingerlands one. There is actually room to stand in the deli area and there are never more than two people in front of me, when at Slingerlands there are always at least five people waiting and they are so slow. There also seems to be more cash registers and they have 15 items or less lines on each side of the check out area.
I’m never in Latham and I’m pretty sure I’ve never even been to Niskayuna so I don’t go out of my way to go to other and/or better grocery stores. I can not wait for the Shop Rite to open in Slingerlands this fall, I’m pretty sure I will stop going to PC all together when that happens. I hate shopping at PC but I don’t particularly care for Hannaford either, so I go to what is easiest for me to hit on my way home from work. I’m not a sale shopper and I actually go more to Aldi unless there is something I need that they don’t have or I don’t like the quality of. I find it interesting that Aldi is owned by the same family trust that owns Trader Joe’s. So I’ll be curious to compare their items when Trader Joe’s comes to town.
To the Niskayuna Price Chopper I will always be true. Free babysitting. Shops4U. These two services are enough to trump any deficiency of service or product — of which I’ve found none, by the way. Happy customer.
Free babysitting?
The top things I look for in a grocery store are low prices, good selection, cleanliness, friendly staff and location — location, location, location, which is really what dooms the entire “Best Of,” in my opinion. There really should be separate sections of “best of Saratoga County,” “best of Albany County,” etc., ’cause finding out that the “best” are all in Delmar or East Greenbush is totally not helpful to me (and vice-versa for you if the “best” are all in, say, Wilton).
I’ll vote for the Clifton Park Hannaford, ’cause it’s near my house and has the lowest prices and all of the rest of the above qualities (plus it’s newly renovated, with a wing bar and eco-friendly lighting in the display cases, which is nice).
I can’t do a top three, though, ’cause I never go anywhere else. Why would I go to another grocery store when I already have a good one near my house?
As far as farmers’ markets, it’s more a combination of location and hours. If it’s near where I am and open (the second one’s a killer), I like it. As it is, I pretty much never go to farmers’ markets, ’cause they’re never open on Sundays, when I have time to browse a market (except the Schenectady one, but here again, I’d have to make a special trip, and to Schenectady of all places).
For a full-service grocery store, I’ll have to take the Slingerlands Price Chopper, since as a (former?) city dweller I don’t own a car and don’t really like to drive, and it’s the best thing on an available bus route for convenient, one-stop shopping. They have halfway decent meat in a pinch (though I try to get to Falvo’s and Rolf’s whenever possible, both of which I hope make it on your list), and the produce isn’t half-bad. Decent selection of other products – including things like the Ba-Tampte pickles I love, and there’s that Ben & Bill’s Deli inside that has offers some good treats that are hard to find around this region (like a solid cream cheese and lox).
But I’d also nominate the Asian market on Central – it’s one-stop shopping as well in many ways, even if my shopping is more serendipitous than purposeful there much of the time. I go over fairly often for seafood in particular – it’s the only place I’m aware of in the area that has live Dungeness crabs from time to time, something I miss from my days in the Bay Area – and the meat selection is also excellent. Plus, I go through rice like a maniac, and that’s the place to go for rice (particularly short- and medium-grain), unless you prefer basmati and you’re more likely to go to one of the halal markets further down Central.
Great idea with the three-step ballot – I’m looking forward to seeing how things go.
I can really only vote for one grocery store. While I think all Hannafords are better than Price Chopper, the Hannaford on Central in Albany is my favorite. You can find a much wider variety of foods there (especially “ethnic” ingredients) than other locations. I know where everything is (this is important!). The prices are consistently low, the people who work there are friendly and I almost never have to wait in line (if the lines get long they open more registers and keep people moving). The turnover at the store seems nonexistent. I swear I’ve seen the same faces week after week for over ten years. That has to say something about the quality of life employment at Hannaford offers. That means something to me as a shopper…seeing the same cashiers, managers and floor persons increases the quality and consistency of service. It’s open 24 hours and incredibly convenient. I’ve shopped at other Hannaford locations and PC’s and really there’s only one grocery store on my list and this is it (unless we can add north country locations – probably not!).
Also – agree with the Troy Market recommendation. It’s the place to be on Saturday mornings. It’s always worth the trip to Troy from Albany. Even if I don’t have a plan for the week, it’s a great place to go for inspiration.
I used to be a big supporter of the Slingerlands Price Chopper. Even though it was out of my way I would go there because it was better than the options around me. I’ve finally gone back there and it just isn’t the same. It could have been a fluke night, but they were out of a majority of the items on my shopping list.
Nowadays, I only go to PC or Hannaford if I forget to get to buy it at Aldi’s or the Asian Food Market.
Favorite grocery store is the Latham Hannaford, it’s really far from my house but if I’m in the area I always stop, second is the Hannaford in Valatie, clean, new, good stock and lots of cashiers, third is the Price Chopper at Westgate, carries tons of stuff I can’t get anywhere else.
For farmer’s market it’s Troy all the way, while I like Schenectady and Delmar, Troy is my go to market
I really don’t shop around enough to give you three votes in each category, but here are my #1 vote and explanation.
#1 Supermarket – The new Shop Rite. On a weekly basis I go to my local Price Chopper (across from HVCC, nothing special). I stopped in the new Shop Rite just to check it out. This is the only Supermarket I think is worth considering shopping at, even though it isn’t conveinent, and would be extra effort. It’s clean, the hot and cold buffetts are awesome, the olive bar is AWESOME, the Natural Food items are great (just about everything I could get in the canned food aisles from HWFC is there), and best of all – you still qualify for the SALE price, even if you do not have a club card. Then there are additional sales just for club cards. As someone just walking in to check things out, this was very welcoming.
I have been to the Latham Hannaford, but I can not state that I would go out of my way to shop there. Part of that is that I dislike getting in and out of that plaza, specifically the intersection between Hannaford and HD.
#1 Farmer’s Market – Troy. I honestly haven’t been to the other markets you mention (I sometimes go to Menands), but I LOVE the Troy market. There are vendors that I go to specifically seek out, but they are always adding new vendors to try. I also love the options for lunch, and that there is live music, as well the educational community groups. Parking isn’t always great, but I’ve never had to walk more than a block and a half. Also, it is great being downtown for shopping around River St afterwards, on weeks when I need to pick up gifts or get a watch battery replaced.
So, sorry I can’t provide you an official, well informed, ranking, but I’ll throw my two cents in, and give you some additional thoughts on the Shop Rite. :-)
I was really happy to see the Slingerlands Price Chopper on the list. Before my husband and I bit the bullet and just started sourcing our weekly groceries from various different spots, this was our go-to grocery store. This was, in part, because of convenience – the Slingerlands Price Chopper was generally less crowded and (for us) easier to get to than the Latham Price Chopper. The Latham Price Chopper, at the time, “won out” as far as “best” for us, because they had a Boar’s Head deli whereas Slingerlands did not, but this was not enough alone to make it a better choice for us. If this has changed, I would say that easily vaults Slingerlands above the Latham location, as Slingerlands is a nicer store – nicer layout, better produce, etc.
I have not been to the Niskayuna Shop Rite, and I think I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve been to the Latham Hannaford (and it hasn’t been recently), so I can’t really speak to those stores. However, an old roommate used to go out of his way to buy his groceries at the Latham Hannaford, which is not insignificant, as this is roommate had discerning tastes (and was instrumental in further cultivating and refining my beer-snobbery).
One of the things I think should be taken into account as far as best, at least for supermarkets, is convenience. Not necessarily location as that is different for everyone, but rather “one-stop shopping.” We tend to buy from multiple sources – Honest Weight, Farmer’s markets, butcher shop (Cardona’s), etc. However, for many households this is not a viable option. Though all of those places serve an important purpose for me, for what they carry, I can’t take care of all of my needs at any one single location. (Honest Weight comes the closest, however they are lacking in some key areas, too. I don’t necessarily fault them for this, it just is what it is.)
Regarding the farmer’s markets, I’ve been to all three you mention. For me, Delmar is a distant, distant 3rd. They have some really great independent vendors, however when we went nearly everything was picked over. In fairness, we got there about an hour before they closed down, and I understand that the vendors want to only bring enough to sell for the day, but it was nonetheless a disappointment for us. I haven’t been back since, and that was about a year and a half ago. It may have been an off-day, and it may have improved since then. Based on Britin’s comments, it sounds like it has. (SN – we actually went over to the market that day specifically to try All Good Bakers (storefront not open yet), and they had already closed up shop by the time we got there, which I assumed was because their wares had sold.)
Schenectady and Troy are CLOSE for me. VERY close. I have to agree with you that the inclusion of the fish market is what edges out Troy over Schenectady (aside from physical proximity, that is), because otherwise I find Proctor’s far more pleasant than the Atrium. I do prefer the later hours as well – 9am-1pm is not difficult for me, but my husband is a night owl and rarely rises before noon. Schenectady is the only market that is open later – 10am-2pm, which, I think, gives it an advantage since many of the area farmers markets are early morning. I do, however, wish that Schenectady and Troy were flipped – that is, Sch on Saturday and Troy on Sun. This, however, is selfish on my part – it’s not often I have a reason to venture to downtown Schenectady, but there’s quite a bit I love about it, and on Sundays most of it is not open. I am excited for the Troy summer market to have Wednesday hours, and I’m hoping that they will extend to after-work (i.e., after 5pm).
Having said all of this, those are the only 3 markets in the area I’ve been to. I’ve heard good things about both Saratoga and Glens Falls’ markets, but I can’t speak to them. My mother keeps promising to scout out the GF market for me, but hasn’t yet. I think we’re going to go together the next time I am in town, as they *do* have an indoor winter market. Both my uncle and my mother’s best friend are fans.
Figuring out exactly how much to bring to market is a very tricky dance that we get better at the longer we do it. So many factors come into play that are not in vendors’ control that determine a busy or slow market day. It rare we completely sell out an hour before closing, so we surely left happy the day you came, but kicking ourselves for not preparing more. It’s a crapshoot sometimes. We speculate the best we can to avoid waste and ensure we have enough on the table to last the whole market.
@Wendylicious, I’m not sure how Eric got around that particular requirement. He’s the only vendor I know of who doesn’t meet it.
I’m going with, for Supermarkets:
3. Crossgates Commons Walmart
Hear me out. I actually find a lot of reasonably priced unusual items there. It’s the best place to buy canned shiitake mushrooms, and the only place I know of to get organic 90 minute Seeds of Change rice packages.
2. The Fresh Market
This is just a wonderfully curated store. It’s not necessarily going to be the cheapest but it has been great for me to find new products, some of which I’ve then found for less elsewhere. Their meat and bakery section are both excellent.
1. Latham Hannaford
Admittedly this is my local Hannaford but they do a good job.
Farmers’s market
I haven’t gone to enough of them to be wholly fair but I do love the Troy market.